PDA

View Full Version : Version Scumware Declaration



Exce1a
03-02-2003, 07:02 PM
First of all, thanks to the makers of this site.
I'd like to introduce the idea that this site would become much more useful if it identified which versions contained spyware/scumware/suckware/bloatware, the avoidance of which is perhaps the main reason why this site is so popular.

For each application, have a page with a table on it. The columns are the versions and the rows are [spyware], [forced advertisement], [scumware], etc.

The row headings are clickable, and provide information (i.e. for a media player or pdf reader, the description might read: "Installing this program will force your computer to send information about what you are viewing to others, without alerting you that it is doing so, and without informing you who it is being given to. They promise that you will remain anonymous (the information about what you view will not be associated with your identity) but they collect your IP address, which could be used to personally identify you."

(Different levels of spyware could be specified too. You could have row headings [spyware1] [spyware2] [spyware3], making each a link to its definition.)

Clicking on the row heading "scumware" would yeild the definition: "Installing this program will alter the appearance of websites you visit, so that what you see when you visit a website is different than what everyone else sees when they visit that same website. The appearance of the website might be changed so that it contains links that are unintended by the website's author. The reason this program alters the appearance of websites is usually to increase profits for the company which owns the program you are about to install. "

This would enable users to know what they are getting when they download a particular version. Even a very crude form of this table would be immensely useful.
(Later, the table may be expanded to include a few rows corresponding to features relevant to that application. However, the main purpose of identifying scumware, suckware, spyware.)

This would enable visitors to see, for instance, that Versions 1.0 thru 3.0 of Application X did not have scumware, but Versions 4.0 thru 7.1 do. This would enable them to be able to make more informed decisions about what they download.

This would also reward developers which remove bad stuff from their programs, because the table would show that the undesired features were removed from newer versions.

Right now, there are a couple of posts in forums here and there, but it is spotty, worlds from exhaustive, and not easily accessed from the point of view of someone looking for info on which version of a particular ap to download.

I think it would be great to have plain english definitions. Everyone knows that licensing agreements are to long and the language too obtuse for most people to sit down and figure out just what they are agreeing to.

I think these things would greatly improve the value of oldversion.com to the public. What do you think?

Exce1a
03-02-2003, 07:15 PM
Just wanted to add that I could help out if you want. I have a talent for "dumbing down" information.

The Muffin Man
03-06-2003, 11:38 AM
Spyware can easily be stopped by ZoneAlarm or McAfee firewalls. They can
also be deleted by spyware-removing programs.

If you are REALLY concerned about your privacy, you should know that with
internet explorer, there are records of every site you have visited in index.dat
files located in:

c:\windows\tempor~1\content.ie5\index.dat
c:\windows\cookies\index.dat
c:\windows\history\history.ie5

You can't see them in explorer, you can only delete them in DOS mode.
What makes me so mad is that it takes up so much space over time and
Microsoft did a good job hiding those files.

f**kmicrosoft.com has more infomation.

Oh Boy
03-08-2003, 02:55 PM
ZA is a mess, and yes, there are other ways to address scumware and suckware and spyware.

But that is kind of beside my point: People should have the right to know (or some means of knowing) that they are installing such crap when they install a program. The makers of these aps hide the fact that they are doing this, either by omitting info about what the program does* or hiding it by translating it into obtuse language that noone can understand and then inserting this difficult-to-identify needle somewhere in a five-page user agreement haystack. ... and that's if they notify you at all, which some don't. There are currently no consequences for doing this.

My point is, they're not exposed for what they are, and they can be.
One of the stated purposes of Old Version is to make available old versions which lack features we hate.

Why not expose newer scumware suckware versions for what they are, right here on OldVersion.com so that users who would like to download an ap know what they are getting? Isn't this the point of OldVersion.com, to offer a choice? The info I am proposing be put on OldVersion.com is not readily available elsewhere in an organized easy to comprehend form, as far as I know. OldVersion.com is the perfect place for it. Companies don't tell you which versions have scumware, etc. because they don't want you to know its there, and people coming to OldVersion.com are sometimes no better off because they can't figure out which versions have what, unless they are lucky enough to find some dotty info on a messageboard or usenet.



*(e.g. perform tasks like "phoning home" or altering the way other's web pages are viewed - tasks that have nothing to do with the purpose of the application the user is installing, and that users don't expect).

igor
03-11-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Exce1a@Mar 2 2003, 07:02 PM
I'd like to introduce the idea that this site would become much more useful if it identified which versions contained spyware/scumware/suckware/bloatware, the avoidance of which is perhaps the main reason why this site is so popular.
That is an excellent idea and we have considered variations of it for a while now. The biggest problem with that is keeping the information up-to-date and accurate.

In about a week, we are planning on making some changes to OldVersion.com and adding new features. This should be a rather important update. It is still unclear which features will be added. However, your idea is definitely something that we will give a lot of thought to.

If you would like to help out, please email or PM me.

- Igor

Goslow
07-20-2003, 01:14 AM
[
QUOTE]QUOTE (Exce1a @ Mar 2 2003, 07:02 PM)
I'd like to introduce the idea that this site would become much more useful if it identified which versions contained spyware/scumware/suckware/bloatware, the avoidance of which is perhaps the main reason why this site is so popular.
That is an excellent idea and we have considered variations of it for a while now. The biggest problem with that is keeping the information up-to-date and accurate.

In about a week, we are planning on making some changes to OldVersion.com and adding new features. This should be a rather important update. It is still unclear which features will be added. However, your idea is definitely something that we will give a lot of thought to.

If you would like to help out, please email or PM me.

- Igor [/QUOTE]

Lookn for something else saw this got distracted as you do

Just adding my vote (If I get 1 :rolleyes: ):Yes for this idea
It can only make life better

BTW. I understand the latest version of GetRight has had the adware/spyware removed.Sounds like a go ahead company to me.

CALM
07-26-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by The Muffin Man@Mar 6 2003, 11:38 AM
If you are REALLY concerned about your privacy, you should know that with
internet explorer, there are records of every site you have visited in index.dat.......

Microsoft did a good job hiding those files......


This interesting info but I have a question..... I ONLY use Netscape
(just upgraded to 7.1 and LOVE it)
but does Netscape do this too?
Or just wonderful MS??

locustfurnace
07-26-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by CALM+Jul 26 2003, 01:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CALM @ Jul 26 2003, 01:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--The Muffin Man@Mar 6 2003, 11:38 AM
If you are REALLY concerned about your privacy, you should know that with
internet explorer, there are records of every site you have visited in index.dat.......

Microsoft did a good job hiding those files......


This interesting info but I have a question..... I ONLY use Netscape
(just upgraded to 7.1 and LOVE it)
but does Netscape do this too?
Or just wonderful MS??[/b][/quote]
windows9x users;
to remove the index.dat file everytime you reboot windows, create a AUTOEXEC.BAT batch file in C:&#092;
enter into the file

Del C:&#092;WINDOWS&#092;Profiles&#092;LOCUSTFURNACE&#092;Cookies&#092;index.da t
DEL C:&#092;windows&#092;cookies&#092;index.dat


replace Locustfurnace with your windows username
now when windows reboots it will remove this file every time.


for Netscape users there is (so far i only found the history.dat).
located here.
C:&#092;WINDOWS&#092;Profiles&#092;LOCUSTFURNACE&#092;Application Data&#092;Mozilla&#092;Profiles&#092;LOCUSTFURNACE&#092;*.slt&#092;history. dat

change LOCUSTFURNACE to your netscape profile name. this can be deleted easily, unlike IE. Just go to this folder and delete your cache and .dat files

C:&#092;WINDOWS&#092;Profiles&#092;LOCUSTFURNACE&#092;Application Data&#092;Mozilla&#092;Profiles&#092;Default User

another info file you might want to remove is for AOL AIM, if you use this messenger, there is also a history file, located at
C:&#092;WINDOWS&#092;Profiles&#092;LocustFurnace&#092;Application Data&#092;Aim&#092;LocustFurnace&#092;urlcache
for safety reasons i would just make an another folder i this folder, name is DELETEME, and move the files you find into this DELETEME folder, then run AOL, make sure it works fine, then when everything is fine, remove the DELETEME file.

CALM
07-26-2003, 09:32 PM
WOW&#33; Thanks&#33;
How do you know this stuff?&#33;&#33;?
I have been trying to figure out computers for years and am still at the advanced beginner level. I would really like to be able to learn how they work so I can do things with files instead of just windows. Do you read books? College? MS?
I read puter magazines and some books and they help some but I am not sure how the whole system goes together&#33;
(so I will copy and paste this into a word doc.)

locustfurnace
07-27-2003, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by CALM@Jul 26 2003, 08:32 PM
WOW&#33; Thanks&#33;
How do you know this stuff?&#33;&#33;?
I have been trying to figure out computers for years and am still at the advanced beginner level. I would really like to be able to learn how they work so I can do things with files instead of just windows. Do you read books? College? MS?
I read puter magazines and some books and they help some but I am not sure how the whole system goes together&#33;
(so I will copy and paste this into a word doc.)
LOL, no college, no schooling, just have a great interest in Systems. i have used, demo&#39;d, tested, experimented with hundreds of different operating systems. Doing the different systems you have to learn name association, kinda of the way you learn peoples name&#39;s. John Smith has multiple names, which all point back to John Smith, whether they be real names or psuedo names. Like, husband, father, son, uncle, dad, smitty, johnboy.... Anyway.

The more systems you know the more you can learn newer ones even faster once ya figured how how most systems are layed out. The Hardest system i have yet to run successfully is called Oberon. and it just never wanted to setup correctly, and it is a very different type of system.
Microsoft is just one of many systems i use.

The best way to learn windows, i feel, is to start using an OLD OLD system, get yourself a old system from a flea market, that has win 3.1 on it, or earlier. if you could get one with windows NT 3.1 would be better- more to configure.

As windows gains in years, it hides and make invisible more of the underlaying system - this makes it more user-friendly, just not user customizible or fixable. By dumbing down windows, you have to hide alot of things and or remove them or make them NON adjustable. Most computer users do not want to have to be a technican to run a system, thats why Windows is so popular for 1 reason, but thats another story.

Learning DOS will greatly help as well. and you should have some sort of DOS on your system, which you can learn on. getting an old system also requires that you know more hardware names. and you will be required to learn alot more with an older system.

Then read read read read read and read some more, you dont have to learn what you read, just as long as you read it. then one day while doing something you might say "oh i think i read about this somewhere" so even though you did not learn it, it still lingers in your memory that you are aware of this or that.

After you learn something, come to this or another forum and try to help out, or ask questions if you arent sure, then someone might be able to help you and it will speed up your learning process even faster.

And try to get your hands dirty in everything, from hardware to databases to programming to graphic arts to music editing to SGML to AI to postscript.

it takes time, but there is alot of enjoy

guest_CALM
07-27-2003, 11:03 AM
[B}THANK YOU&#33; [/B] Thank you for spending the time to answer my question.
I do understand more than I read in the beginning so some of it is sinking in.
Sorry to hear about Windows 3.1 ;) My parents had that on their old puter and I really hated it. (Waaaay back when, before windows, I did CAD and thought that was easy)(too bad I never stayed with the computers through the growth stages)
But I guess I will start playing around with my old W98 puter and since I have restore discs, not much to lose&#33;
One thing that I have not found is something between the dummies books and tech manuals. Like the time I was trying to find out about file extensions, never could find what was what. Maybe that is basic beginner info, but I have not ever found what I consider to be non-idiot, non-geek middle books. oh well.... THANKS AGAIN&#33; Chris

guest_CALM
07-27-2003, 11:08 AM
P.S. ;)
I do my own hardware replacement on all of our computers. so at least I am not afraind to open the case and replace a modem (again) or swap out the CD drive&#33;
And I just remembered that DH&#39;s puter has W95&#33;
:)

locustfurnace
07-27-2003, 12:25 PM
your welcome. Here is a sit with some basic computer terminology

http://www.nullmodem.com/terms.htm

Example:
TWAIN - "Technology (or Toolkit) Without An Interesting Name" - An interface standard for scanner, fax, graphics and text-reading (OCR) software. It allows images to be scanned directly into the image editing software. Most recent scanners come with TWAIN drivers, and most recent image-editing software accept data from TWAIN.

Another with File Extension formats

http://www.wotsit.org/search.asp?s=window



but I have not ever found what I consider to be non-idiot, non-geek middle books. oh well.... THANKS AGAIN&#33; Chris

The SAMS books seem to be a middle road type guide.
http://samspublishing.com/ they can be found at the bookstores, sometimes ya can get them in the cut-out bin too for a good price.

Tim O&#39;Reiley has some good books, can be found in major bookstores as well. On the site you can sometimes read a preview chapter as well.
http://www.oreilly.com/

and another site that has very good magazines, such as their Computing Encyclopedia series
http://smartcomputing.com/

CALM
07-27-2003, 08:07 PM
Thanks again.
Got a DOS book today for 25c. ha. Library has LOTS of books too but it is cheaper to buy than pay the fines ;) (PC DOS 7 -- looks like is is pretty understandable, dated but hey- for a quarter&#33;)
Have bookmarked sites. I like to open multiple pages than go offline and read&#33;
I actually did take an online college course one time but it was a ripoff and not useful and it was outdated at the time and &#036;&#036;&#33;

locustfurnace
07-28-2003, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by CALM+Jul 27 2003, 07:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CALM @ Jul 27 2003, 07:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>(PC DOS 7 -- looks like is is pretty understandable, dated but hey- for a quarter&#33;)[/b]

Thats cool, thats IBM Pc DOS 7.0.
I have IBM&#39;s PC DOS, i have used it to build embedded devices, such as music jukeboxes. not much too different in it from MS DOS.
you might want to check out FREEDOS - yes it is free. http://freedos.org/
its alive and kicking and up to date.

<!--QuoteBegin--CALM@Jul 27 2003, 07:07 PM
Have bookmarked sites. I like to open multiple pages than go offline and read&#33;
[/quote]

you might want to use Phoenix, i mean, Firebird, for web browsing, since it includes tabbed browsing, which is a extremely nice feature when looking at multiple pages. (goes the same for Mozilla, Netscape, OPera, MyIE...etc etc.)

I also have a huge collection of pdf files for reading, I have about 1.5GB of pdf books, manuals, tips and how-tos.
you might want to scour the net looking for pdf books for reading.

I stuck them on my web server so i can have access to them much faster and i can share them with some also.

There is not too much diff between some of the name conventions in DOS to say, Unix®.
DOS uses the backslash &#092; while UNIX® uses the forward slash /
and once ya get used to using commands in DOS you can always - if you later use a Unix® system, make alias&#39;s for the commands. as so
DOS uses dir to display the directory listing, while Unx uses the ls command, so you would make an alias to point dir=ls.
So now whenever you want to show a dir in Unix® all you have to do is type B]dir[/B].

For each DOS command there is built in help commands, to display them for each, on the CL type the command with a forward slash followed by a ? mark. as so
C:>dir /? this will display all the command line options available for the command. Even alot of the CL run Windows tools can use the help switch. Such as when you go to reinstall windows, and your on the CL and you type
C:>setup.exe /? this will give alot of options for installing windows, such as NO PROMPTING, NO BOOTDISK CREATION, DON&#39;T DISPLAY BANNERS WHILE INSTALLING, this is useful for performing an unattended installation of Windows. meaning you dont have to sti and click through all the stupid questions when installing windows.

One last tip, anytime you are messing with DOS, make sure you load the DOSKEY command, this will keep you from having to reype all the commands over and over. It keeps a history of the commands you typed, so if ya need to type the same long strings over n over, now you can just press the up arrow to scroll through past commands typed.
This saves alot of time. and useful for finger errors made.

Goslow
08-04-2003, 01:58 AM
If you are REALLY concerned about your privacy, you should know that with
internet explorer, there are records of every site you have visited in index.dat
files located in:

c:&#092;windows&#092;tempor~1&#092;content.ie5&#092;index.dat
c:&#092;windows&#092;cookies&#092;index.dat
c:&#092;windows&#092;history&#092;history.ie5
An option for the lazy
A site (If your lazy like me or havnt been concentrating lol) that has some research and a small cleaner program that I have found useful with Win98 I.E5.5 . However it does seem to clean everything i.e. option buttons might not work but you probably need a good clean out anyway.Warning History might make interesting reading ;)
Spider HomeSite (http://www.fsm.nl/ward/)
BTW Thanks for DOS tips in earlier posts copied those .