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Dookie
06-11-2003, 02:46 PM
Ok so I'll probably get banned for even daring to criticise.

I'd like to make the point that I believe the forum admin are far too enthusiastic at "editing".
I refer to the posting by Tank in the program board about a program that captures video streaming.

Now its already been made clear that links to illegal warez wont be tolerated. I understand that and its a good way to avoid lawyers interfering.

Removing the name of a program tho is just plain daft - there cant possibly be any legal repocussions and where do you draw the line ??

Cant mention astalavista - as altho security related also publishes hacks ??

Cant metion yahoo because using "crack" as a search entry will return potentially illegal warez ??

Cant mention kazaa as its possible to download illegal game images ??

I think theres something very wrong here especially when admin typed a page boasting how they can hack pooters regardless of firewall useage . Ethics or Meglomania ??

Dooks

locustfurnace
06-11-2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Dookie@Jun 11 2003, 01:46 PM
Cant mention kazaa as its possible to download illegal game images ??


kazaa is available for downloading and there are messages pertaining to it. so thats not correct.

this board gives me the impression it deals with OLD VERSIONS of program, i guess thats why it is called OLDVERSION.

there is no room for warez, cracks or other types. they dont need published, mentioned, linked to. there are ample boards that do deal with this subject, you can find em if you like, but they dont stay alive very long, wonder why.

Just as on a BSD forum ya dont go talking about Redmond, its not wanted, it will not make you popular.

I dont think Censorship and freedom of speech have anything to do with this forum either. just look at the DeCSS case examples. people say it is freedom of speech to post the code, while some people have been sued for doing such.

since this is not a forum board funded by public money, but by private, the owner of the board can do as he/she wishes. and limit the message postings as they chose.
already one person did in fact post a message saying how this is a nice forum, except it needed BETTER moderating.
so there you are saying its too tight, and another person says the content filtering needs to be improved.

cant make everyone happy. nor is the world always fair.

Pete
06-12-2003, 10:52 AM
I think one of the problems is a lack of clear guidelines or "rules" that are readily available. I realise that we all agreed to something written in legalese when we first signed up, but memories fade.

Currently the moderators, just have to use their best judgement, and opinions will differ.

At another message board, there was a debate about a so called "illegal" proceedure. Actually the activity wasn't against any state, federal or local laws, but it was against the "terms of service" of many ISPs that depend on advertising for all or part of their revenue. The debate was really about ethics, and that's where opinions really vary.

Perhaps, we could use a pinned locked topic, written by the owners, in a prominent place, that spells things out in plain English.

Therese
06-12-2003, 04:43 PM
To Dookie


Ok so I'll probably get banned for even daring to criticise
You are wrong; you will not be edited or banned for this post, at least not by me. I can’t find anything illegal in this post. You can criticize as much as you want – as long as you show a decent respect for the other member’s opinion.


I refer to the posting by Tank in the program board about a program that captures video streaming.

I know very well which post by TankEngine you are referring to. In fact, it was I who made Grandpa aware of this post and discussed it with him.
Note what TankEngine himself explicit says about this program in the post.

If anyone is interested I have a discontinued version of .

. This program was removed/discountinued because RealMedia filed a law suit against the makers. RM files were never intended to be saved to HDD.
After I read this post I made a search and found the following (I will not post the link to this site because it is possible to download the program from the site).

*
Note! This program is no longer supported by the author. Streambox had legal difficulties with RealNetworks Inc. and therefor this program is illegal to use in the United States -- U.S. users should not download this program!.

I have not changed anything in this quote.

Grandpa and I discussed this and decided together that this post should be edited. TankEngine made it completely clear for everyone that he was willing to mail this program to everyone who wanted it, guests as well as members. That is why we (Grandpa and I) edited the e-mail address and the instructions he left about how to get this program.

Neither Grandpa nor I consider that this forum should be “a p2p forum”, sharing illegal programs. As locustfurnace wrote in his reply, there are other ways to get these kinds of programs (and I will not encourage them).
I am not at all against posts about sharing legal software. But as long as I am one of the moderators I will edit all posts about sharing illegal software.


Now its already been made clear that links to illegal warez wont be tolerated. I understand that and its a good way to avoid lawyers interfering.

Is this the only reason why you accept editing of links to warez sites? “avoid lawyers interfering”! Is your opinion really that this site should balance on the “edge of the law”?
You seem to be against a site that is clearly on the legal side of the fence. Why?

And finally:
I think theres something very wrong here especially when admin typed a page boasting how they can hack pooters regardless of firewall useage
Which post or reply are you referring to?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

To locustfurnace:

Thanks a lot for your support, we appreciate it very much!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

To Pete (and other members):

I quite agree with you.

I admit that there are no clear guidelines and rules at the moment. If you read this topic (http://www.oldversion.com/talk/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=859), please note that it was only about a month ago we became moderators. We have not had time yet to pin “rules and regulations” but we are working on it and we have some other ideas too that we hope the admins will accept.

At the moment it takes a lot of time for us trying to get and keep this site as “clean” as possible; and there are also requests that need replies.

About differences in opinion; Grandpa and I almost always have the same opinion about the posts. We are in contact via IM and e-mail almost every day.

We need and appreciate all help we can get from all of you!

Grandma

peppycomputer
06-13-2003, 01:01 PM
:blink: This is Grandpa,

Now you know why Grandpa listens to Grandma, Grandpa likes to stay out of trouble! :rolleyes:

peppycomputer
06-13-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Dookie@Jun 11 2003, 01:46 PM
Ok so I'll probably get banned for even daring to criticise.

I'd like to make the point that I believe the forum admin are far too enthusiastic at "editing".
I refer to the posting by Tank in the program board about a program that captures video streaming.

Now its already been made clear that links to illegal warez wont be tolerated. I understand that and its a good way to avoid lawyers interfering.

Removing the name of a program tho is just plain daft - there cant possibly be any legal repocussions and where do you draw the line ??

Cant mention astalavista - as altho security related also publishes hacks ??

Cant metion yahoo because using "crack" as a search entry will return potentially illegal warez ??

Cant mention kazaa as its possible to download illegal game images ??

I think theres something very wrong here especially when admin typed a page boasting how they can hack pooters regardless of firewall useage . Ethics or Meglomania ??

Dooks

I think theres something very wrong here especially when admin typed a page boasting how they can hack pooters regardless of firewall usage . Ethics or Meglomania ??


No boasting, no I, taken out of context, just fact, on our site right now there are people who can hack anything, now we say, you have front doors and back doors. you have side doors and roofs, you have basements. Anyone of those are entrances to your house, Just fact! You do the best you can, to stop it. Someone is always better than you are, If you have anything important you can be broke into. Locks only keep out the honest!

That is how that post was ment! We will be more careful in use of languge and wording next time!!

Grandma says it best :P

Dookie
06-17-2003, 01:46 PM
Hi

Firstly Id like to say thankyou for the replies.

Second Id like to apologise for what in retrospect seems overly critical comments.
Experience of other forums has shown me that admins often delete/alter/censor forum posts and not always for good reasons and its unfair censorship I dissaprove of ( we all enjoy freedom of speech ).

Im sorry if Ive left the impression I dissaprove of the site, far from it. This is not the case at all, this is a great site. Ive recently submitted 6 program versions of programs currently hosted.


Is this the only reason why you accept editing of links to warez sites? “avoid lawyers interfering”! Is your opinion really that this site should balance on the “edge of the law”?
You seem to be against a site that is clearly on the legal side of the fence. Why?


I believe if your not going to get into legal difficulty then do it ( whether its software/porn/hate sites/whatever ). I see the internet the same way as TV, if you dont like what your seeing then change channel. I cant really comment on the ethics of piracy/software theft as its a big topic. In summary I think people work hard at writing code for a living and deserve payment ( Im a programmer by profession myself ) but at that same time whos loss is it if 9year old billy steals a copy of windows XP ( if he couldnt copy it hes sure not going to buy it ).

Anyway thanks to everyone whos contributed to this site & helps maintain it.


Dooks

OldVersion.com Admin
06-17-2003, 02:22 PM
Dookie, I personally agree with you.

All the other boards I have ran, I ran by a rule of anything goes to abide with freedom of speech, but than again those boards turned out to be mad chaos, so this is a new approach. You will never be banned for disagreeing or speaking up against, I promise you that.

Guest
07-28-2003, 07:39 AM
I think you should stop complaining, the webmaster has his/her on rights to do whatever he/she wants if you say the security is to tight go make a another old version website
you can't get everrything in life
so stop complaining